About 9/11 in Secret Societies Discussion Forum

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TruthSeeker24	About 9/11	Lead	[-]
Posts: 4130 (02/01/06 10:58:50) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Remove this ad Extra World Trade Center Info First, some esoteric components of 9/11 must be exposed first. The old log of the U.S. Marine Corps elite War fighting Laboratory dealing with Urban Warfare had a green evil dragon eating the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center. The USMC has a lot of pride in their apparatus, so they probably had a lot of thought in intentionally creating this occult logo. Frederick Goodman in his Magic Symbolism on pg. 6 outlined the importance of a magic symbol as an image which hides an inner meaning. This meaning is usually cunningly hidden behind a form which most people [only] think they can understand immediately. So, symbols are used by the Elite to communicate their message to occultists, while hiding it from the profane, the rest of the world. The symbol is the dragon rising out of the city, is a threat to the city, eating the Twin Towers. This is representing Satan since the dragon and a green serpent are synonymous with each other Rev. 12:9 and Rev. 20:2 identifies Satan as the dragon and the serpent. The Basilisk serpent is colored bright green like the Marines Corps dragon and the serpent. The basilisk serpent is colored bright green like the Marine Corps dragon. This coiled serpent is pictured eating a human being as a crowned serpent. According to Frederick Goodman, the basilisk in occult legend can destroy anyone it looks, represents wisdom and eats a human being to represent the act of initiation. The USMC green dragon looks at the 2 buildings and ate it as an act of Satanic initiation. The green color is Mother Earth or Gaia to cleanse the Earth of mans industrialization. The Elite did this initiation to form the New World Order and their Antichrist to appear. Even the Masons meet in a Green Dragon Tavern at 11th Street in Boston. Now, the USMC changed their logo to another occult image. It has airplanes near NYC with a green dragon, Marines with binoculars, a sniffing dog, and others coming ashore. The Marines are backing the dragon up and not fighting it. It appears that the dragon is giving the Marines power over the enemy. The Globalists (whose rulers are Luciferians or Satanists) are using the Marines to fight the enemy (innocent Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc.) An episode of The Lone Gunman months before 9/11 in 2001 had a plane flown into the World Trade Center by remote control to send Martial Law into America and bomb any Third World Nation they wish. S. J. Jackson created a card game in 1990 that was so controversial that the game was confiscated by the Secret Service in 1991. It has the World Trade Centers attacked first in the North Tower plus the Pentagon in a certain region exactly as they happened. Cutting Edge Ministries is one of the first groups to mention this. A Rap group called Coup [from Oakland, California] also had on their Album cover of the 9/11 attack with a device to blow the buildings up. Note that they have a Red Pentagram representing Communism and Satanism. Daria Kelly, director of sales for 75 Ark, the band's label, said that the artwork was done 2 months before 9/11. A Recap 1. The Bush and Bin Laden families had business connections spanning decades. Source #1: Bush & Bin Laden - George W. Bush Had Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood By Roger Miller. Link: www.americanfreepress.net/10_07_01/...eorge_w__b.html Source #2: MIDEAST TERROR WAR ADDS URGENCY TO CARLYLE GROUP CONTROVERSY: Former President Bush Works for International Investment Firm With Ties To Saudi Arabia-Company Had Bin Laden Family Connections by Judicial Watch in April 1, 2002. Link: www.judicialwatch.org/1685.shtml Source #3: The Bush-bin Laden Connection BY ANDREW WHEAT from the Texas Observer at 11/9/2001 Link: www.texasobserver.org/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=480 2. The U.S. government funded Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda, and the Taliban. Osamas code name was Tim Osman and he was a known CIA asset. Source #4: Steve Coll, Washington Post, July 19, 1992. Source #5: When Osama Bin Ladin Was Tim Osman by J. Orlin Grabbe. Link: www.orlingrabbe.com/binladin_timosman.htm Source #6: The Nobel War Prize by Michel Chossudovsky at October 25, 2002 Link: www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO210B.html Source #7: Who Is Osama Bin Laden?by Michel Chossudovsky, Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa at September 12, 2001. Link: www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html 3. Many of the hijackers are alive today. Source #8: Revealed: the men with stolen identities By David Harrison (Filed: 23/09/2001). Link: www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai.../23/widen23.xml Source #9: Sunday, 23 September, 2001, 12:30 GMT 13:30 UK Hijack 'suspects' alive and well BBC News. Link: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm 4. The U.S. government funded and shepherded the hijackers. Many of the hijackers were trained in U.S. government military bases. Source #10 : FBI Knew Terrorists Were Using Flight Schools By Steve Fainaru and James V. Grimaldi Washington Post Staff Writers Sunday, September 23, 2001; Page A24. Link: www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prio...ttacked/archive Source #11: Pensacola NAS link faces more scrutiny: Senator seeks answers on hijackers ties to Navy base by Larry Wheeler New Journal Washington Bureau at September 17, 2001 Link: www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prio...sacola_link.htm Source #12: The Informant Who Lived With the Hijackers By Michael Isikoff NEWSWEEK Week of September 16th Link: www.truthout.org/docs_02/09.13A.newk.infrmt.htm 5. Conclusive evidence points to a controlled demolition of World Trade Centers numbers 1, 2, and especially Building Number 7. This is the most important part of the 9.11 criminal act, because you must find out how the towers collapsed to figure who was involved plus the collapse was the most destructive component of 9.11. No time in history have towers (who were skyscrapers) collapsed by fire alone, but only by earthquakes and controlled demolitions. The vast majority of the flames leaped out from the buildings, especially in the South Tower with a fire ball. The plane that hit the South Tower was only in a perpendicular angle, but not a direct hit. Yet, the South Tower fell first after 56 minutes after impact when the South Tower had less damage than the North Tower. The South Tower had black smoke denoting a dying fire. In a few minutes, the jet fuel no longer burned with black smoke indicating a localized, small fire, not a raging inferno. No way could localized fire collapse the towers in 10 seconds having 47 robust steel columns, which were anchored in bedrock hundreds of feet below the Earth be destroyed by fire alone. Not to mention that 425,000 cubic yards of concrete was pulverized from the 2 Towers to powder. Explosives can be a means to accomplish this pulverization. The melting point of aluminum is 1,148 degrees Fahrenheit, 2,795 Fahrenheit is the melting point of steel, and 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit is the maximum temperature of jet fuel mixed with air in perfect proportions. Many sources like Kevin Ryans (a site manager of Environmental Health Laboratories-A Division of Underwriters Laboratories) mentioned that the fire never reached above 550 degrees Fahrenheit. That temperature is too below the melting point of steel or the maximum temperature of a hydrocarbon burn. Firefighters said that the fires were almost out. Firefighters, experts, media, and others outlined explosives going off in the Twin Towers. The North Tower fell in a perfect symmetrical fashion similar to a controlled demolition. The South Tower tilted 23 degrees then changed its direction in mid air, then feel. Only explosions on its 47 core columns (the primary core of each tower) could have been blown to allow the Towers to fall in its own footprints uniformly. Building Number 7 is the easiest proof of a controlled demolition. No object hit Building #7 and its fires were small in tiny windows. It was the farthest building from the complex. Fires began to come only at 3:00 pm. Photographic evidence prove demolition since the central interior collapsed first before all other perimeter sides collapsed. That made a lower radius of the debris to fall. Larry Silverstein owned the Towers and in a September 2002 PBS America Rebuilds, he said we decided to pull it. He meant to get the firefighters out to cover up the fact that its fires were small. Pull it can also be a controlled demolition since pull it is commonly known in construction jargon that engineers use to call for a controlled demolition. The Building housed Major Giulianis Office of Emergency Management. Plus, Building 7 was the location of the response to the 9-11 attacks, it had CIA offices, a FEMA location, etc. Larry Silverstein had a record insurance policy and received $3 billion after 9/11. Therefore, Larry Silverstein is one person involved in the cover-up of 9/11. Source# 13: Demolition Technology by 9-11 Review Link: 911review.com/means/demolition/index.html Source #14: Collapse Features: Characteristics of the Twin Tower Collapses and What They Show Link: 911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/c...pses/index.html Source #15: 9-11 on Trial by Victor Thorn created in 2005. 6. Many military officials from the Pentagon say that NORAD stood down. How could this have happened? During 9.11, the NORAD used 5 wargames to temporary distract NORAD (violating their standard operating procedures) of intercepting aircraft with F-16 if a plane refused to submit to an order by the air controller. Dick Cheney in a June 1, 2001 memo had Cheney to have full power of plane interception and NORAD, overriding the authority of Generals. The CIA had a drill as well on 9/11. Many good military people were confused on whether the war games and drill was real or an exercise. Before 9/11, NORAD had drills of planes crashing to the Pentagon and World Trade Centers as well. Source# 16: The "Failure" of the Air Defense System 9-11 Review Link: 911review.com/means/noshow.html Source# 17: The 9/11 USAF Stand Down by What Really Happened Link: www.whatreallyhappened.com/911stand.html Source #18: "War Games" by the US military on 9/11 paralysis of air defenses that ensured the success of the attacks? who coordinated these efforts? Link: www.oilempire.us/wargames.html 7. The government had foreknowledge of the attacks in the form of aircraft sent to crash into buildings as a terror attack. Many prominent officals like Willie Brown and John Ashcroft were warned not to fly to NYC on 9.11. Source # 19: 1999 Report Warned of Suicide Hijack by By JOHN SOLOMON Associated Press Writer Link: prisonplanet.com/1999_Report_Warned...cide_Hijack.htm Source #20: Willie Brown got low-key early warning about air travel by Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross, Wednesday, September 12, 2001. Link: www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...12/MN229389.DTL Source #21: Bush was given hijack warning by British intelligence: Americans were told of attack threat, say MI5 and MI6, as Marines begin new operation against al-Qa'ida By Andrew Gumbel and Jason Bennetto 18 May 2002 Link: prisonplanet.com/bush_was_given_hij..._by_british.htm Source #22: Foreknowledge of 9-11 A Compilation of CRG articles and documents in support of a 9-11 Investigation (April 15, 2005). Link: www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CRG204A.html 8. Osama bin Laden met the CIA in July 2001. George W. Bush signed FBI document W199I restricting investigations and arrest of al-Qaeda. THIS IS BLATANT TREASON. Source #23: Bin Laden 'met CIA agent before terror attacks Anavona Wednesday 31st October 2001 Link: prisonplanet.com/bin_laden_met_cia_...or_attacks.html Source #24: Presidential Directive W199I (One of the smoking guns of 911) Link: www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%...er-up/w199i.htm 9. The U.S. government had preparations to invade both Afghanistan and Iraq before 9.11. The motives for 9.11 are spelled out in the Project for A New American Century Document. These included 25 Neo Cons founded in 1996 like Bill Kristol, Jeb Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Cheney, etc. The document called for a new Pearl Harbor event (i.e. 9.11) to control the Middle East region. Other motives by other sources are for global government, oil, opium, military industrial complex enlargement, pretext to invade sovereign nations, etc. You cant forget the motive or trying to form a police state in America and ruin of civil liberties with the Patriot Act and other laws. Source #25: The World Trade Center Demolition and the So-Called War on Terrorism: 10. The Demise of Liberty Link: www.serendipity.li/wtc10.htm Source #26: Project for the New American Century (PNAC): Cheney's Monstrous Scheme By Mary Louise Link: www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_010603_pnac.html Source #27: George W. Bush, The Neocons, & The Nazis: Ties That Bind by Glen Yeadon August 23 2004 Link: www.prisonplanet.com/articles/augus...iesthatbind.htm 10. Strange occurrences happened at 9.11. Bush 41 knew of the attack before coming to the elementary school. In the elementary school, Bush was told of the 2nd attack in the school and did nothing for a minimum of minutes. Bush Sr. went with Shafig bin Laden, Osama bin Ladens brother, on the morning of 9.11 at the Ritz Carelon Hotel in Washington D.C. during a Carlyle Group meeting. Marvin Bush, George W. Bushs brother, ran security for the World Trade Centers, Dulles International Airport, and United Airlines. Lt. General Mahmud Ahmad, Pakistani Director of the ISI gave Mohammed Atta $100,000. Ahmad had breakfast with Porter Goss (Bonesman, CFR member, and Director of the CIA), and Bob Graham. Source #28: Guilty for 9-11, Part 3 Bush in the Open by Illarion Bykov and Jared Israel [Posted 18 January 2002] [Revised slightly and re-posted 12 September 2003] Link: emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-3.htm Source #29: Profile Bin Laden Family by Center for Cooperative Research Link: www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity....=1521846767-331 Source #30: 9/11 - An Inside Job? Link: www.whatreallyhappened.com/inside.html Source #31: 20 Smoking Guns: The 9/11 Military/Psyops Attack Propaganda Matrix by Paul Watson Link: www.whatreallyhappened.com/inside.html 11. The aftermath of 9.11 is wild. From September 11th-15th, 2001, 160 Saudis were flown from Kentucky to Saudi Arabia. Clarke claimed that he is responsible, but this is another event when all aircraft was grounded. There was an Anthrax attack, who experts found originated from a U.S. military base in Maryland. Another airlift occurred in November 2001 when the U.S. used C-130s to carry 8,000 Taliban and al-Qaeda members from Afghanistan to Pakistan. Source #32: Did the Government Okay the Anthrax Attacks? by Michelle Mairesse Link: www.hermes-press.com/anthrax_atrocities2.htm Source #33: Judicial Watch Link: www.judicialwatch.org/5139.shtml Source #33: MSNBC News. Link: www.msnbc.com/news/664935.asp?0si=-...knowledge&cp1=1 12. There were record stock options before 9.11 with links to CIA Executive Director A. B. Buzzy Krongrad. Legitimate evidence does denote remote control technology (standard on Boeing aircraft) to execute the attacks. The Mossad committed odd acts before and during 9.11. Source # 34: 9/11: My own review of the entire event. Link: home.planet.nl/~reijd050/index.html Source# 35: Bombs in the Building: World Trade Center 'Conspiracy Theory' is a Conspiracy Fact By Randy Lavello Link: www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lavel...0503_bombs.html 13. Operation Northwoods Document is an official government plan that called for hijacked aircraft to be used against Americans to justify war with Cuba. This is similar to 9.11 with only President John F. Kennedy rejecting it. Many offices were empty in the World Trade Centers that was lower than normal. Other workers and children warned that the WTCs will collapse or not go to work. The Mossad probably had a role in 9/11 as well. Source # 36 : OPERATION NORTHWOODS: S PLANNED FAKE TERROR ATTACKS ON CITIZENS O CREATE SUPPORT FOR CUBAN WAR From BODY OF SECRETS, James Bamford, Doubleday, 2001, p.82 and following. Scanned and edited by NY Transfer News. Link: www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html Source #37: "Trade Center warning baffles police: An urban myth turns out to be true but what does it mean?" By Jonathan Alter SPECIAL TO MSNBC Link: prisonplanet.com/Trade_Center_warni...fles_police.htm Source # 38: "Mossad - The Israeli Connection To 911"By Christopher Bollyn Exclusive to American Free Press 4-14-5 Link: www.rense.com/general64/moss.htm Source #39: "Deciphering Dov Zakheim" Link: judicial-inc.biz/Dov_zakheim.htm Source #40 "Clues to the Murderers of 9-11" Link: www.the7thfire.com/9-11/clues_to_th...behind_9-11.htm Therefore, Computer malfunctions caused the occupancy of the American and United aircraft to have 20% occupancy, but 80% is the average occupancy of these aircrafts. (as shown by WING TV). Drills and wargames occurred for distraction and a criminal group might of used remote controlled technology to use the planees to hit the Towers and the Pentagon. The object hitting the Pentagon turned 270 Degrees to its newest section as a target equating a sophisticated flying tactic. The hijackers were poor pilots. Controlled demolitions collapsed WTCs # 1,2, and 7. Flight 93 seems to have been shot down (I could be wrong on this on) and 93 was about to hit the Capitol. Heres more info: On August 9, 2005, a front page article in the New York Times revealed that a military intelligence unit had identified four September 11 hijackers as Al Qaeda operatives working in the US a year before the 9/11 attacks.A former intelligence officer in the Pentagon unit named Able Danger indicated that the intelligence unit was prevented by the militarys Special Operations Command from passing on the information to the FBI. (From www.hermes-press.com/unthinkable.htm Bush Junta Complicity in 9/11) CONCLUSION: 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB PERIOD. THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 9-11 on Trial by Victor Thorn* This is a great book. Its format is in the form of a trial transcript describing 9/11. It is indeed the easiest source to use to determine that a controlled demolition brought down the Twin Towers and Building #7. It uses many sources and other forms of information to make the case. David Ray Griffin, a theologian who correctly deduced government involvement in the attacks as well, positively recommended it. Victor Thorn is just one member of the duo with Lisa Giuliani making up WING-TV. WING-TV is a website that shows the news, radio shows, and has a firm policy of no compromising to the mainstream media, any censorship, and pure activism. I respect that policy since you need to act in that manner if you want any solutions done in America. Without a doubt, Thorn presents information that is irrefutable that there is no way that fire could have melted the buildings to make them collapse. The temperatures of the fires were way below 3,000 degrees to melt the steel columns, the collapse of the buildings were symmetrical or asymmetrical denoting a controlled demolition, and Victor Thorn use scientific equations to back himself up. WINGTV has this obsession with Zionism, when the Zionists are controlled by other groups and the Mossad was helped into creation by the CIA's Nazi Knight of Malta Reinhard Gehlen, something that they don't mention. I have no problem with exposing Zionists, but many God fearing Jews exist in the world and they need to realize that. Many anti-Semitic groups also are infiltrated by the government and they blame the Zionists and the Jews for everything. Martial Law: 9-11 and the Rise of the Police State by Alex Jones This film is part of Alex Jones collections of Videos and DVDs. Before reviewing the film, the controversy over Alex Jones must be explored. The controversy went into a whole other level by early 2005 and May 2005 by WING TV and others. I believe that charge that Alex Jones is soft on Zionism is a farce. For one, he had guests on his show that condemn Zionism like Ted Pike. Alex Jones has publicly criticized Zionism, the ADL, Bnai Brith, etc. before. In his published book written by Paul Watson called Order out of Chaos it criticized the corrupt policies of Israel and criticized Zionism. Alex Jones also says that the Elite are forcing the people to obsess with Zionism, so we must focus on other components of the New World Order with anti-Semitism. I agree with him on that. Most people criticizing Zionism arent racist, but some are and are using us to be conned into blaming the Jewish people for everything occurring in the world. Zionism is nothing more than a creation of the Secret Societies by the 19th Century. The Jesuits, Illuminati, and Freemasonry through their Masonic Jewish Zionists control the Zionist Movement today. I agree with Alex Jones opinion on Zionism. I wished he showed the Knight of Malta/Jesuit/Nazi links since tons of Knights of Malta funded the Nazis during World War Two. The following are the 3 main disagreements I have with Alex Jones, which are censorship, ecumenicalism, and Scientology. This is documented fact and not bashing of the man. We need to continually inspire Alex Jones to change his ways and improve himself though. CENSORSHIP: WING TV was probably one of the first internet sites exposing Alex Jones censorship. On Tuesday, May 3, 2005, Alex Jones censored a call by Steve from Ohio. Steve admitted to the censorship and WING-TV does have eyewitness, audio, and transcript evidence to back this up. GCNs policy for censorship is only profanity and other derogatory language. Steve never said derogatory language, but only asked Alex Jones to talking about WING TVs 9-11 on Trial book. Jones soon cut his call and censored it from the radio archive. He also censors calls on other occasions. I believe in no censorship whatsoever. We must have no censorship in this movement. Alex also apparently sold out the Gray family involved Waco for a few hundred bucks, which is wrong as well. ECUMENCIALISM: According to Eric Jon Phelps and Nicholas Rivera (2 Bible-Believers though I disagree with Eric on some issues) called Alex Jones not only a Roman Catholic, but a Jesuit Coadjutor. Roman Catholicism is not Christianity obviously. Alex Jones on a July 27, 2005 radio broadcast denied being a Roman Catholic. The smoking gun of his ecumenicalism is his acceptance of The Passion of the Christ movie as legitimate. He interviewed Hutton Gibson [Mels father] and hes a real anti-Semite by denying that 6 million Jewish people died during the Holocaust and other extremist philosophies. SCIENTOLOGY: Gary and Lisa Ruby with their Liberty to the Captives Ministries have exposed this Scientology connection with Alex Jones. Jones supports a man who is affiliated with Scientology. Finally, what do I think of Alex Jones film Martial Law. Ive watched it and considered it a decent film. It is divided into 3 parts which are about the Republican National Convention Protest, the 9/11 Inside Job, and some of the Satanic/occult Secret Societies that control the world. In the DVD, there are extra features describing more about torture, the United Nations, and other relevant information to wake people up. Rudy Guilani and 9.11 There is pure evidence to make manifest to the wrodl that Rudolph Giuliani was not only an ex-prosecutor in New York, but was Knighted by Queen Elizabeth II. Queen Elizabeth is head of the British head of the British Knights of the St. John of Jerusalem, a cousin of SMOM Grandmaster Fra Andrew Bertie [who heads all of the Knights of Malta globally], so the Elite surely love Giuliani. Its a fact that Rudys father was part of the Mafia. Giuliani admitted in an omitted May 18-19, 2004 omitted transcript of the 9/11 Commission that Pier 92 was selected as a command center before 9/11 to plan for a bio-terror drill or Project TRIPOD in 9/12. He said FEMA was going to be involved. The equipment was there before 9/11, but the command center wasnt so FEMA could very well be in NYC at September 10th to plan for Operation TRIPOD on 9/12. The 23rd floor of Building #7 had $15 million worth of renovations like independent and secure air and water supplies. There were bullet and bomb resistant windows designed to handle 200 mph winds. It was used for then Mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, as an emergency command center. The 23rd floor had a view of the north side of the Twin towers. They were imaged to be prime terrorist targets after the 1993 bombings of the World Trade Center. Building #7 housed CIA offices, FEMA, Securities and Exchange, and other vital interests housed there. Now, Rudy Giuliani admitted in an interview when the first plane hit, 7 World Trade Center was evacuated. How could Tower 7 be evacuated so early, when the South wasnt immediately evacuated (it was right next to the North Tower), and in that time many people didnt believe it was a terrorist attacks, but an accident? Even Security personnel told people to stay in the South Tower when the first plane struck the North Tower, because Security believed that the damage was limited to the upper floors of the Tower was limited to the upper floors of the North Tower. Additionally, security felt that the North Tower was no threat to the South Tower. Rudy and crew went to an alternative command center at a block away at 75 Barclay Street. Even weirder information was that he admitted to Bilderberger Peter Jennings of ABC News that We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse. Rudy, the police commissioner, and the fire commissioner, the head of emergency management were there in that other command center. Who told Rudy that the World Trade Center was going to collapse? The only obvious answer were the ones who planned on demolishing the towers with internal explosives. Thats because they knew in advance of the activities of the Towers before any collapsing occurred on that day. Giuliani and Co. (police & fire commissioners) had direct radio contact with the firemen who were in the Twin Towers. They were bravely saving peoples lives and fighting the fires. Giuliani didnt warn the heroic firemen that the Towers were going to collapse, and they did nothing to alert the firemen. Hence, many firemen died. Why would the killers destroy Building #7 when it had no aircraft hit that could arouse suspicion? PhD. Morgan Reynolds, a professor emeritus of Texas A&M University, speculate that it was done to destroy the evidence placed in that building. Also, the 23rd floor of the Building 7 according to Dr. Reynolds could be the location were the perpetrators conducted the attacks and then destroy it or cover-up of the evidence. Rudy Giuliani certainly benefited from 9/11, sicne he was revioled as controversial by his opponents before the attacks. Now, hes praised almost like a Savior-figure. Most people dont comprehend his duty tactics to cover-up the truth behind the September 11th attacks. According to Al Cuppett (U.S. Army/The Joint Staff who is Retired), in 11/11/2002, a member of a militia complained that Guiliani was banning under threat of arrest all video/phot taking of the WTC crime scene. Activist Robert Lederman said that Giuliani had FDNY union leaders arrested in their homes for leading protests against his turning the recovery of bodies into a scoop and dump operation aimed at quickly rebuilding the WTC site into a pagan 1,776 feet Tower by 2008. He stole 2,000 cases of NYC documents owned by the public on his last day in office and secreted them in a private warehouse. Rudy Guiliani allowed the Steel from the Twin Towers to be sent to China. Boasteel recycled the World Trade Centers debris without first an investigating it. Unfortunately, this is a sick tactic of the Elite to keep the truth from the eyes of the people. Giuliani Partners is his company and he was listed as Person of the Year in Times 2001 edition. Rudy Guilinai could run for President in 2008, but his record is less conservative than John Kerry and Rudys a Republican!!!! Rudy is pro-abortion, anti-gun, pro-homosexual marriage, pro-Patriot Act, pro-open borders, and pro-Bush. Hillary Clinton could also run and be the 1st woman President in American history. This woman has been in the Elites corner for decades. By TruthSeeker24 November 1, 2005
gemini25	Re: About 9/11	#1	[-]
Posts: 7 (02/19/06 01:37:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just a few points.... My background, though my kudos is not that impressive, I am a third year engineering student at OSU. Given that I have taken 3 physics courses, 2 material science courses, 1 strength of materials, statics, dynamics, ect.... Now from my experience what you are talking about is somewhat true, though there are multiple points of analyzation. First of all, when you talk about metling points, that is not what you need to have failure. When things are heated up to a high degree, there molecular structure begins to weaken. Now every material has a failure stress and strain in which they can withstand before deforming permenently. When taking this into account, heating would lower this causing failure accross anything that is heated relativley higher than concieved by the design engineers. So, to end that, take a metal spoon and heat it on your burner. Most spoons are made of steel. Your burner gets to near 400 degrees on high. Keep that in mind that you have to keep is sustained there, but that is comparing 400 degrees with 1800 degrees. Now take that spoon, be careful you might burn your selves, but now bend it. You will find it bends really easier than a non heated spoon.. Using this you can see that if the fuel ignited heating the BOLTS in the beams. That is what is keeping the beams up. Beams are used to distribute the load down to were the bolts can hold. If the bolts were heated, and there failure stress lowered, the load of the building would deffinetly cause a failure across the board. That would cause the building to collapse. Now the point that the building fell strait down. Thinking about it analytically we can formulate that it could happen. One floor distances is 15ft probably (including ductwork and such). Taking that the outside of the building is cement and glass and the inside is steel, wood, and plaster. We can see of a floor fell the cement on the outside can withstand more force then the windows or inside materials. That would cause the building to collapse inward. Getting the momentum going, we can find that it would continue in that vector and cause the building to fall strait down. With just falling 15ft, with tons and tons of material, the moment is force times distance. That means 10,000 lbs of material falling 15ft would be 150,000 lb's*ft. That force is enough to sustain a downward vector and cause everything to collapse below it. Also, seeing the video on TV, I can say the building up top fell before anything below it. Even if there were charges, there would be just a good enough chance for it to not fall strait down. The only way for truelly have that happen is if the charges were set at the bottom. Then all the weight is directed downward and inward. You talk about steel shafts in the ground that are holding up the building. They are good as long as the building is at static equilibrium. If any momentun, like 1,500 ft of building material falling down, they would break like twigs. Do not put faith in steel beams are the best material, you are wrong. Just because it was built, does not mean it is impervious. Take any building, throw a huge plane, some ignited fuel, tons upon tons of building falling down and that is alot of stress that no material except one huge slab of cement could hold up. Once you put up beams you distribute the loads, but you put extreme stress along the shaft and do not spread it out on a uniform plane of one big slab. It is like playing with jenga, balance it on beams and it is more flimbsy, put it on a base and it is stable. Look at the empire state building, it is a build up style. That is because of when it was build, but it would surivive a plane crash better than the twin towers. Triangles are the most stable building device. Look at the empire state building, it looks like a pyramid in some sort of the sense. Way more stable then the twin towers.
TruthSeeker24	A response.	#2	[-]
Posts: 4130 (03/06/06 07:20:27) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There are my physicists that disagree with your critique. Not to mention that you fail to mention that both towers had 45 core columns and that couldn't have been destroyed by a collapse alone. There were molten steel found in the buildings, witnesses hearing explosives, and other things that Dr. Jones have reported on. Not to mention that you don't discuss Building 7 when no aircraft hit the building, yet fire came for an unknown reason and it collapsed in a symmetrical fashion (similar to a controlled demoliton). Silverstein said that he pulled it and it fell in less than 7 seconds. www.wingtv.net/911ontrial...index.html is a link with more information.
gemini25	Re: A response.	#3	[-]
Posts: 7 (03/08/06 20:27:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well to think what goes into a building... which includes pressurized piping for sprinkler systems and such. Imagine the fire going off then all that water going into steam, pressure builds up and boom we have explosions. It takes alot of pressure to blow copper piping, but increasing the temperature from cold water to steam would do it. even 45 reinforced holdings can not stand up to that amount of falling material... The building was not built to withstand planes... Just get a little common sense and logic in it. A plane weighing thousand tones goes flying into a building at couple hundred miles per hour. That momentum would crash through majority of the 45 reinforced supports. Once most of them are gone, there is more force from above and the whole place comes crashing down. You also put this information here, what is it going to do. How does this forum help out anything... I can not see any good purpose for it. This will be my last post. "You have to take one step at a time and deal with what is in front of you..." These things are in the past.... we should morn for them. Give or take our goverment is corrupt and there could be supposed group trying to unify the world... What would be so bad with that... Why do people think everything is evil. LATER
TruthSeeker24	Re: A response.	#4	[-]
Posts: 4130 (03/09/06 07:06:35) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	911research.wtc7.net/ 911research.wtc7.net/talk...lides.html is a link that can rebutt you. WINGTV's book answers all of your question about the plane impact into the Twin Towers. One aircraft hit the building at an angle, not directly and it collapsed. Like I said, the architects built the structure to handle a 757 plane. Also, the 45 columns should stand up in the air if the collapse was without explosives. Instead, the columns were destroyed and you mention nothing on Building 7, which no aircraft hit it. Building 7 was built to stand thousands of degrees of heat. Also in Madrid in 2005, fire burned the buildings for days, yet it didn't collapsed at all. Building 7 collapsed and other evidence proves that it feel by a controlled demolition. You have nothing to say about it, which is omission. You talk about nothing on the Bush/Bin Laden link, NORAD, Building 7, foreknowledge, funding terrorism, etc. proving that it was an inside job. Unifying the world is wrong, because it violates national soveriegnity, the US Constitution, and other moral principles that are apart of human beings in general. By TruthSeeker24 (Timothy)
gemini25	Re: A response.	#5	[-]
Posts: 7 (05/01/06 12:57:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I was not applying my knowledge to the unification of the world. I was applying it to the shear physics of the problem. By what you are saying, those towers could have survived high powered missiles. A normal fire burns at a less temperature then fuel. Taking a thermodynamics class while progressing through my mechanical engineering class tells me that they burn at a higher temperature, enough to clearly come close or even bypass the melting point of steel. I agree that the unification of everyone under a world goverment could be bad, or it could be good. Why can't the world be under the rule of a US sytle goverment were the people elect there officials and everyone is represented. Were do you draw the line under which a certain number of people can be ruled under one goverment. To me, I do not worry about world orders, those who are trying have to few people and not enough influence. Think about this, who controls the NRA, the lower to middle class. They own the guns. Do you think the military would obey a tyranny, they are trained to die for the USA, not a world order. So guess what, NWO = world civil war. It is laced through out history, not country can ever be a tyrannical when the people are instilled with freedom and there are charismatic people fueling the fire. Look in england, they kicked out the King until they reinstilled parliment. France is laced with civil war, russia had a civil war. The US had a civil war. The only reason why Iraq and Cuba had successful dictatorship is because of how genius they were in doing it. They kept the public stupid, shooting down anything that could have them topple over. I am not saying there are not secret societies, it is I know history repeats it self. In that I believe that humans will not stand for tyranny. So all I can say is do not worry... the thing you must worry about his how federalist our country is getting. It is way to central goverment controlled. I think there should be a redistribution of power in the US, to give more power back to the states. That way the people can have a better chance of controling there freedoms. That should be the big thing that should happen.
TruthSeeker24	Response.	#6	[-]
Posts: 4130 (05/04/06 10:48:28) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	truthseeker2473.blogspot....ini25.html is the link of my response.
gemini25	Re: Response.	#7	[-]
Posts: 7 (05/04/06 12:37:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Remove this ad I admire your convictions, and respect what you say. Unlike some other people I know, it seems you took in alot of information and it took you a while for you to come to the ideals you believe in. A friend of mine seems to want to find a reason to believe in something that might not be there because someone said so. I hope that in the end he will come to his own realizations, and not to decide to believe something just because someone said it. Response to the world trade center... I do not have much time, being a college student to go out and do my own calculations or research the proof to support my opinions. As of right now I am open to both sides, that it was a controlled demolition or it is just the planes. Also as an engineering, I have been trained to trust the equations and believe in the information math can tell me. Math can describe manythings in this world, but one thing I know is that life and living can go past science and engineering. I have seen things were the equation can tell you something, but life can tell you other. Just because his equations say they are right, does not mean they are. As humans there are factors we can no account for that can lead to a new solution. That arguement can be apllied to both sides, yours and mine. I am not using to just discount your information, just as a rationalizer to say do not believe everything that seems to fit. One factor could be the falsification of data to suite ones agenda, i am not saying anyone did that, but it seems fit to say it might be just as beneficial for the goverment to do it as the people who are trying to pull out these so called secret societies or conspiracies. As to the 7th building, who knows. I am not going there because I did not see any new coverage on it or heard anything about it until comming to this board. So, as for what you say, it is one option, i will however keep it out of the arguement about the twin towers as evidence until I can find more information and formulate what I believe to be the truth. It might be bad for the unificaiton under one goverment. It was the greeks phylosophers who describes what happens when one goverment gets curropted. The founding fathers used this to try to make sure that our goverment would not reach that end. In my american history class now, we are at the point of the 1840's, and by the events that passed, it seemed that a more federalist view kept slowly gaining power. this could lead for our democracy to turn to a anarchist state. But another thing that could help is the political parties. George washington never wanted a party and viewed them as a threat. Though, there was another view that said that because of the multiple party system, no one view could rule. That seemed to have save our country because of the split in republicans and democrats. Though one happens to get control, it never last long enough to take the goverment out. About your believes about world orders and the NRA... I agree with most of what you are saying there. Though, i do not stand that close to you on that side. *Quote:* I believe in action, speaking out, and helping people. That is a great belief and I totally agree with you on it. With the NRA, i do think they are to radical for me to believe in everything they try. I do think we have a right to arm ourselves, but to push laws for concealed weapons and to own military style weapons is going to far. As humans it puts to much tempation in us to do something more. There needs to be a limit on what types of guns we should own. I believe that the US goverment is curropt to a point. I believe there are some good people in the goverment who are trying to look out for the people they represent. I believe the thing that kills us is the polital parties. I think we need to get rid of the primaries. I believe we should have at least 3 - 4 of each party running. That way, more issues can be put out on the board, a better chance for the society to elect someone that is good for the job. I think they should get rid of the electoral college. We are a country that can vote for ourselves and do not need to put our trust in a selected group of people that can turn around and do what we do not want them to do. *Quote:* I will worry about all evil, but my worry won't lead to stagnant and not living my life. I will live my life, but I will stand up against evil. That was the phrase I was looking for, that you live your life and will not let the evil put fear and control your life. I do not let anything control my life, I was born to live the way I want to live. I understand that laws are important, but to many are bad. Moderation is the word I try to live buy. It leaves to healthier eating and it is what helps settle any arguement. Comprimise has been the best tool created that we have lost and need to regain. As to worring about torture and such, i am sad and morn for those who are put through such things, but i can not let it consume me. I have to live my life and I chose civil engineering as my path. I have faith in my friend who is going into politics, he has a goal to be a none corrupted politician. I know him well to, he is a great man, has a great sense of faith and morals, and I know he will not be corrupted. I will leave the duty of dealing higher order things like torture and such to the next generation of up and commers, my generation. The only thing those curropt people due is piss off more young people and get us all ready. The problem with secret societies are that they are a minorty. Skulls and Bones, one college. We will weed it out, the thing that keeps me going is faith in us as humans.
TruthSeeker24	Response.	#8	[-]
Posts: 4130 (05/05/06 05:35:36) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I agree with most of what you say. I think there isn't a need for me to respond long again. The reason is we agree more than we disagree and we want improvements in the world. Life is precious and life shouldn't be ruined in paranoia. Likewise life shouldn't be destroyed in being passive around evil as well. I would say that people like us oppose Secret societies like Skulls and Bones because they make up the elite far too often controlling our lives. I just graduated in college in December, so I hope you have a great career when you're done with college. By TruthSeeker24
brutus2003	Re: Response.	#9	[-]
Posts: 9 (07/02/06 16:49:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wow! What a debate! 9/11 is history now, and it doesn't matter if it was in inside job or not. The Elite is desparate and time is running out for them, so they are trying to do whatever they can to accomplish its agenda, namely--the New World Order---One World Government, ONe world currency, and one world religion. The recent Bilderberger meeting in Ottowa, Canada was held in secret; and officials arrested Alex Jones and he was detained over night for questioning, and then released without harm. The agenda of the meeting was oil pricing, current situation in Iraq, Iran, and others. There are also activities in the pacific ocean near Hawaii, in anticipation of North Korea's long ranged missiles test. The Fouth Amendment has been over turned by the recent court rulling. Now the giant communications are lobbying to restrict neutral access of the internet. If you look at the US Hoise of Representative, where the Presient makes his speech, you will see two fasces, one on each side of the podium. Many of us have blind spot in our brains. WE are told what to believe and what not to believe. Unless everyone wakes up soon, very soon, there will be no hope in saving the world from Fascism. Actually, it is too late now. We are currently living in a Fascist Country. Look around you, their symbols are everywhere. If you understand their symbols, you understand they are there. They communicate with each other by presenting their symbols. A good example is 9/11. Occult symbols are important to the Elites. I have studied these symbols for many years. If you think Katrina was natural, that is too bad. If you think the Pope is a good man, that is too bad. The mafia bows to the Pope. The international drug lords bow to the Pope. Have you wondered where the headdress of the pope comes from? Why the guards are called The Swiss Gaurds? I will leave these questions for you to answer.
TruthSeeker24	Answer	#10	[-]
Posts: 4130 (07/05/06 08:29:32) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The headdress of the pope called the mitre came from the Mystery Religions of Babylon and other locations. I don't know why the Swiss Gaurd is called that way. I realize the evil of the Pope in history and the occult symbolism. That's the elites gang symbols marking their influence. By TruthSeeker24 (Timothy)
TruthSeeker24	My info.	#11	[-]
Posts: 4130 (07/05/06 08:31:50) Local user Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	What do you think of my info about occult symbolism and the elite at this link: truthseeker2473.blogspot....art-2.html
brutus2003	Re: Answer	#12	[-]
Posts: 9 (07/05/06 08:46:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The Swiss Guards guard the pope, which also guard the Swiss Bank, the International banking centre in Switzerland. The Pope's head-dress comes from ancient Babylonian God, the fish god Daegon. Many Christians have the fish-Jesus symbol on the back of their cars and not realising where it comes from. Many people belive that the statue of liberty stands for Freedom. In reality, it stands for "We the Elite control Americans". The statue of liberty was a gift from the French Freemasons. You will find the same statue on the River Seine in Paris, near where Princess Diana died/sacrificed. The Statue is that of Queen Simerimis of Babylon, and the lighted torch resembles Nimrod, her husband. I am glad that some of us knows the truth. However, many people don't want to believe all of this. They think all of this is a hoax, conspiracy theories, and etc... Theories don't kill, but the conspiracy does. I don't know if we have a chance to win the fight against the illuminati. Time is running out!
brutus2003	Re: Answer	#13	[-]
Posts: 9 (07/17/06 16:55:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Remove this ad Hi Truthseeker, I like your website about symbolism. It is very educational and everyone should check it out. It is too bad that there are still so many people out there who are still living in a box, still being manipulated by the mainstream media, the newspapers...which are owned by the Zionists. They failed to see what is really going on around them. Some people are too deep in that rabbit hole to come out. It is like a void or abyss. As the Middle East crisis continues, we are facing an upcoming World War 3. Most of the elements are in place as we speak. All we need is to have Israel to attack Iran, and North Korea being attack by Japan or the United States, or China attack Taiwan for its independence. There are currently activities around Hawaii, naval ships are manuvering in that area. Don't be surprise if another 9/11 event occurs in the near future, I am looing at the Sears Tower being attacked. Mr. Silverstein has just purchased insurance policy for the Tower. OF course this will be blamed on al qaueda or Iran, as a pretext to attack Iran. Members of the Bohemian Club will be meeting at Bohemian Grove this weekend. One of the agenda is the invasion of Iran, North Korea, and don't forget Venezuela. That is all I have for now. I will keep you up to date as I get more information.

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